Interview: Engineer Behind 5150 studios, George Saer

July 22, 2011 81 Comments

In the 25th episode of Pensado’s Place, the engineer behind Van Halen’s 5150 studios, George Saer, talks about his career and share insights about working with Eddie Van Halen.

The Van Halen talk starts at 17:17 into it. A rare glimpse into the inner workings of the creative and recording process at 5150. With Van Halen working on a new album right now, it’s a good time to hear this perspective about their musical genius and what it’s like to work with them. Musician’s should find his very interesting!

About Pensado’s Place: Top mixing engineer Dave Pensado (Beyonce, Christina Aguilera, Kelly Clarkson, Mariah Carey, Elton John, Michael Jackson, and more!) talks all things music and audio in his weekly show, Pensado’s Place. Dave gives you insights into his career and teaches you how to get that “platinum record” sound for your own mixes. The show includes interviews with top music industry artists,engineers, producers, mixers, and record executives, as well as in depth tutorials in engineering and mixing. If you are into music production, you can’t miss this show!

freddiegirl

Thanks VHND for posting this; I found the VH talk fascinating. I loved both men’s observations about how they started to look more at engineering because Ed ruined their chances at making a living playing guitar..:D And I love the comment about how you could give Ed a cheap Strat copy or an expensive model and still sound like Ed. Ed’s playing is, was and always will be nothing short of magical to me!
Rhymes

Great stuff! Thanks for posting this, I would have loved to hear more about Alex and Mike. Can’t wait for the new record! This interview really changed my thoughts about the new record
evhua

thank you so much for this video !

this is the heart, the soul of Edward Van Halen …

that’s why he is the best player on the planet
Roth_Leaps_83

Cool interview. I’m not a musical gear-head but it’s fascinating to hear an engineer give us some insights into what it’s like working with Eddie in the studio.

However, Ed’s obsession with every little detail of the recording process has me concerned with regards to this new album being released on time. In his early days, I think Eddie relied more on Ted Templeman to do the heavy lifting in the studio and the band just focused on playing to capture that live sound that made them so appealing.

Fast forward to 2011 and Eddie is a lot more involved with producing an album because he has more autonomy — and I’m not sure this is a good thing. We know that Eddie was very much more in control with the “VH 3″ album than any other record and we see how that turned out. It’s a cause for concern.

Edward just needs to stop tweaking the shit out of this album and release the damn thing. I’ve got a bad feeling maybe Wolfie has turned him onto Pro Tools and Auto-Tune and Eddie is “noodling” with them like new toys on Christmas morning. The fans are not expecting a highly-polished masterpiece that will blow “Fair Warning” or “1984″ out of the water — we just want a record that sounds like Roth Van Halen and I’m sure they already captured that on the raw tapes.

Hard to believe these guys used to crank out a new album in only a week —- where have all the good times gone ??
anythingleftinthatbottle

Great commentary. I have always hated working with sound or recording engineers that name drop all the people they have worked with when ever you disagree with their oppinion. George Saer proved to me that ego tripping engineers are counter-productive to the artist and what he is trying to achieve on what ever level he might be. I saw that he also has a back bone and is willing to challenge an idea or sound as well, but in a way that is delicate. I have found that when you introduce an idea to a band or an ingineer, you somewhat feel as though you are in that dream where you are a 7 yr old walking to the bus stop in your undies. In that your idea is raw and unfinished so that you are not really confident with it yet, and a crappy know it all engineer can easily kill a really good idea by puttin a 1000 watt spot light on your naked ass at the bus stop.

Anyway, I really liked this guy George and really wish I was at a level that I could work with him on a project.He seems really humble and I always responded well to that type of engineer. I know you guys could probably not care any less about all that but that is what came to mind listening to this. Good luck in your career George and thanks for the insight into Eddies world. Though I am a COMPLETELY different player than EVH, I have always been dumbstruck by his genious. I liked the comparison made that “You may can type 100 words per minute, but that doesn’t mean that you can write a great novel!” Faster and cleaner players than Eddie?………yes, but I don’t see their photo in my set of encyclopedia set under ‘Guitar’!
Joe

Damn. It was cool, but it would have been infinitely more interesting if they would have put Sear in the “batter’s box” and named VH tracks/instruments. I’m not as interested in Fergie’s vocal plug-ins! Not a lot of insight into the equipment in 5150.
Brian

That was a really good interview. Eddie seems to exude music. He’s made of music.

He is truly on a different level. When you think about the shit he’s been through, we are so lucky he’s still alive.
Brian

Don’t like to double post, but I seriously doubt, Ed would use Pro-tools or auto tune as a crutch.
He’s not that type of musician. He’s talked a lot about how he can hear “in between” the 1′s and 0′s. If you really listen, you can, too.

No way he’s going down the PT and AT road. I think if he were you wouldn’t be hearing the people say “it’s killer” and “VH is on fire”.

Al: “I don’t need no steekin’ CLICK!”
freddiegirl

Brian; I agree..
Roth_Leaps_83

@ Brian —-

I hope you’re right about the Pro Tools and Auto-Tune, but the problem is EVERYONE is using them these days and not just the hip-hoppers and bubblegum artists. Given the pop acts that Shanks has worked with, you would have to assume he cant produce anything unless he’s using PT and AT.

To be honest, I wouldnt mind a LITTLE digital tweaking as long as Dave doesn’t end up sounding like T-Pain. A new CVH album needs to have that signature whiskey-soaked baritone but I can also see Eddie sitting in front of a Mac trying to get Dave to sound like he did when he was 25 yrs. old.

My gut instinct tells me the first single should’ve been released right after July 4th, but now Eddie is in full “tweak mode” in the studio trying to get everything perfect and it’s pissing Dave off (and most fans).

Here’s how recent conversations could have gone:

(July 1)

Dave: “Hey Ed, when we releasing the new track?”
Eddie: “Day after July 4th”
Dave: “OK cool — I’m updating my website to get the fans stoked”

(July 11)

Dave: “Hey Ed, I thought we were releasing the song on July 5th?”
Eddie: “Fuck you — I’m still tweaking the album”
Dave: “This is bullshit — I dont deceive the fans”
Eddie: “Fuck off — I dont need LSD from you right now”

;-(
Garrett

@Roth_Leaps_83 and @Brian

No way EVH would use Pro-Tools, let alone auto-tune, imo. He’s WAY to “analog” for that LOL.
ba

One of the best things I’ve ever heard as far as the inner workings.
Brian

Well I think the idea is to release the single in August.
I don’t think anybody actually said anything would happen on the 4th. That was just internet wishful thinking.

If there’s nothing for all of August, then we got a problem.
Atomic Pete

That was great! This series of shows are a wealth of
information.

I remember Ed saying that they recorded the vocals digitally
in the later “Sammy era” so I’m pretty sure they
have incorporated Pro Tools into the process even
if Ed himself doesn’t use it.It would be very useful in
getting the best vocal “comps” and there is nothing
wrong with that.
littledreamer99

@Roth_Leaps

LSD?

Explain please?
PCH

@littledreamer99:

Eddie has often complained that both Dave and Sammy have LSD. “Lead Singer Disease”, meaning huge egos.
swingin sinner

Lead singers Disease!
spaceman

Yoiu have to remember Eddie saying he had a lot of music in the Vault to record.So with that takes times to pick and choose carefully.Eddie is at a time in his life that this new music is Very Good or else! Unlike Chickenfoot(my nickname for them is SONS OF THUNDER)their Music is done with 4 inputs not 1 (Eddie) his whole being is riding on this.If this is a Failure out goes Dave for Sure.
Roth_Leaps_83

@ littledreamer99 —-

LSD = Lead Singer Disease

Eddie often mentions this psychological malady whenever the frontman in VH starts causing conflicts within the band — because we all know lead guitarists and drummers cant possibly have large egos.
WDFA

Roth_Leaps_83,
lol, I imagined the Dave/Ed exchange went somewhat like that but you nailed it. Did Dave make a pact with the devil when he re-joined VH? He’s been muted and Ed is hiding the remote control. Time will tell. Meanwhile, Janie is busy with her aerial show which apparently takes precedent over PR for VH.
Towers McQuestion

Doesn’t sound like there’s room in 5150 to add a Mac with Pro Tools lol.
David A Toluca Lake

This guy seems like a nice guy. but when he started talking about mics he lost me.

Donn Landee got the best VH electric guitar sounds ever. And he simply used a Shure 57 microphone, close mic’d right up on the speaker. None of Ed’s guitar sounds from 1998 until today sounds as good.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
JACK N SAM

Ed is such a purist – he drinks straight out of the bottle! Don’t want nothing getting in the way.

Dave said in his book as well that their goal, collectively, was to always keep the music as pure as possible. Keep the mixing and overdubbing and do-overs to a minimum. They were all like that – I’m sure Ed was the main guy behind that thinking.
Halen High

Roth_Leaps_83 says:
Dave: “Hey Ed, I thought we were releasing the song on July 5th?”
Eddie: “Fuck you — I’m still tweaking the album”
Dave: “This is bullshit — I dont deceive the fans”
Eddie: “Fuck off — I dont need LSD from you right now”

LOL!

WDFA says:
“Did Dave make a pact with the devil when he re-joined VH? He’s been muted and Ed is hiding the remote control.”

I think Dave understands the sensitivities involved. Or maybe he’s cultivating a new ‘mysterious’ image lol. When the time is right we will hear from Diamond. Before the last tour he had plenty to say and all went well.
Carnal Knowledge

Uh oh. Is there paranoia developing among the Roth’er Camp? Are they getting frustrated with Ed again?

I sure hope the use of Auto-tune isn’t, somehow, Sammy’s fault…..
=VH=OZ MAN

This would have to be the best post VHND has ever put up!! Kudos VHND!!!

We all know that EVH is not that transparent in interviews (he hates doing interviews!) so the next best thing is people that have that close (fly on the wall!), professional working relationship with a genius & icon like Eddie Van Halen. I for one have always been interested in that part of EVH & the Van Halen sound & process. Being a drummer myself the biggest secret & intrigue besides the John Bonham sound is Alex Van Halen’s famous snare sound, the best snare sound in history IMHO!! But aside from all that what this post did for me is it completely eliminates the BS & politics of the music biz & the Van Halen saga. Sammy Hagar’s BS book in particularly the negative BS of Eddie is erased. It means jack shit to me!!! You can through the naysayers, ex bass players having a sook, the politics & the media BS but all I’m ever interested in is the mighty Van Halen!! Their music speaks better than some Sammy Hagar book trying to tell me the real EVH, the real EVH is the mighty Van Halen in its mean street swing!!!!! Get it!!!!!

I sure we all agree it has been way to long since the last Van Halen album. However that period of no new Van Halen album has in itself given enough time for other bands & artists (old & new) to produce music that has the longevity & legacy that the mighty Van Halen have…they have all failed!! A new Van Halen album is on the horizon, life is good people, life is fnkn GOOD!!!!!
http://vhnd.com VH4

@Halen High – I don`t think that things have gone as you and Roth_Leaps are projecting, HOWEVER I wouldn`t rule it out! The only thing that worries me is that at the Aug 2007 press conference, when Ed was talking, Dave kinda butted in a few times and you could see Ed looking pissed. I guess that`s ADHD for you! It could be like 1996 all over again…but I really think these guys, because of Wolfie, because of money and merchandising, because there`s whole generation that needs to hear new DaveVH, because they`re musicians at the end of the day who want to make great music, want this to work big time. And they will make it work. Maybe they are being a bit anal about the finished product, but I trust them to get it right. Totally.
Tim

Sorry to bust everyones bubble but Im sure Ed had pro tools the day it came out. As far as autotune…we all know he doesnt use that (remember How many say I?) EVERYBODY in recording uses ProTools.
http://www.vhnd.com 5150

I think Eddie has a lot to do with Dave’s silence. Dave’s exitement led him to prematurely post the “get ready” message on his website. It was soon replaced with the Australian tour dates.
jungleland2

Pro Tools is not the enemy. Pro Tools abuse can be though. Auto Tune is on 100% of music that is out right now and has been for years, it’s used as an effect (slight phase)for vocals to pop out of the mix. Most of the time it’s not even making any changes. Can it be abused? yes of course it can. Cher, most pop divas, but they use it as an effect, you can correct pitch without hearing that tin sound.

The bigger fear is that the new CD will be mastered too hot, like 90% of today’s music is. In fact Tom Petty appears to be the only one deliberately not doing this to his music. Even the remasters of VH1-1984 are a little too hot for me but if the new stuff fits in with these then I’m happy. Loud is good, over-compression is a crime against nature. The “loudness war” is what we need to worry about, Ed will not let the recording out of his control. The Mastering however is another story. See the last Metallica record for what NOT to do (or most Oasis records, Last Green Day, etc)
jungleland2

I think AC/DC, Kiss, Tom Petty, Foo Fighers, Wilco, White Stripes all use 2″ tape still.
growapair

My buddy got a chance to play Ed’s rig at a show in town one year.He’s an accomplished guitar player and was all excited on getting a chance to jam on it.I asked him what it sounded like and with a grim face he said he sounded exactly like himself on his own rig.Then he watched Eddie pick up the guitar and it sounded exactly like Van Halen.Gear is only part of the story.
FrankenFoot

I’m a little confused…

I hear all of these interviews about how meticulous Eddie is. He’s a tone chaser. He’s never subscribing to one method, etc. Then I think back to 2004 and the samurai hair, the lackluster playing, a terrible guitar solo. Even on the most recent tour with Dave, the 1984 debacle and him playing through the tune.

I’ve seen Eddie at his best on the 5150, FUCK, and Balance tours. He was more refined (live) when Sammy came along for the 5150 tour. When I saw Ed with Dave, I thought that Ed took as much creative liberty with the guitar as Dave did with lyrics. He was much more precise with Sammy in the camp and Alex getting sober.

I’m excited about what the new record will hold, but I’m skeptical of such lofty expectations. I hear all “this and that” about Ed, then I read an article, or I watch a NAMM session on YouTube, or I think of the addiction issues and how much pressure Ed must put on himself. All he ever wanted to do was make music…who knew he would be doing it at the levels he achieved (I don’t think he did).

Eddie has become a control freak…who cares what Dave has to say or whether or not we should get ready? Silly and petty issues have wrecked the VH camp for the past 15 years. Let’s get on with the music already. I almost feel like Eddie went the way of Axl Rose over the past decade.
Wilkster5150

Ed stated in an interview in Guitar World a few yrs back that Pro Tools took the life out of music, or something to that effect. I always remember that because in the same issue the guitarist in Hoobastank said he couldnt live without Pro Tools LOL. As a drummer, I really hope Al’s toms and kick drums arent buried in the mix like they have been in recent yrs. Its ridiculous because his drums sounded incredible on MWM and CGTSNM in 96. Maybe Al just didnt want to put up with Ed’s drunkeness during the 2004 recordings but if the new album is sonically similar to the 1996 sound that will be awesome.
It was great to hear someone who’s been around them say what kind of person Ed really is and that he isnt an attention whore who publicizes all his “good works.”
It’s also terrific to hear someone publically acknowledge the genius that is Alex. He is still my hero as a drummer and never gets the credit he deserves but again, like his brother, he is reserved. Alex Van Halen and Buddy Rich. Simply the greatest of all time behind the kit.
swizzle

Relax Van Halen Fans….
http://aol Joe Damico

VHND – where do you find this stuff?? Keep it up, you have no idea how many of us love your site for reasons like this interview. Real insight, and new info never heard before from a genuine source, which is RARE for true blue VH fans who love being on the earth at the same time as EVH.
DMH5150

5150 – Dave’s exitement led him to prematurely post the “get ready” message on his website. It was soon replaced with the Australian tour dates.

Has anyone thought that possibly Dave’s “get ready” message was for the Australian tour dates? To Dave and the entire Van Halen camp a release of tour dates would probably be something us fans would get excited about and confirm that the band is still together. I doubt they knew the dates were already made public, and that we had already moved on from that news and were ready for bigger news.

Just a hopeful thought…
Adrian

This is truly fascinating, I’m loving the detail and specifics regarding mics, mic placement, speakers, ect! This is just another chip away from the public armor that reveals the musical genius and innovator that Eddie is. Very cool shit.
Adrian

Roth Leaps WTF??? I for one want Eddie to tweek the new VH as much as he damn well pleases! Do you know anything about artists? Tweeking the details is what makes “pieces” “masterpieces”!
Aftershock

Enjoyed the part where George mentioned that Eddie had helped him out of a tough spot personally and that Ed has done lots of things for people and kids that nobody knows anything about. It’s good to hear the other side once in a while.
http://vhnd Emery

Cant wait for new music. Just like a fine wine I say. I`m going out to get new speakers. Just so I`m ready.
http://www.ievolvedintothis.com Ken A

As far as I’m concerned, all the speculation over who’s controlling what, the equipment being used, etc. is irrelevant if there is no evidence to back it up.

Ed uses analog stuff. We know that. Shanks is primarily on board to produce Roth, and Roth isn’t working at 5150. We know that too. But so many details are under lock and key that there isn’t much real information to go by. And when speculation starts to run away, it turns into rumors, which then becomes “information”.

Let’s occasionally remember how little is actually known, and keep the fantasies to a healthy minimum.
Joe

@Adrian, agreed.

Incessant tweaking is obviously what made Chinese Democracy and VHIII so unforgettable.

SMILE only took Brian Wilson 28 years to complete and all 3000 people that bought it are still enjoying it today.
Sean

Great watch! There is a storm brewing on the horizon. All that is bad in the music world will be swept away by the mighty roar.
Ed is God

He confirms what I’ve known since 1978. In a world of hacks and wannabes, Ed is a true genius… Others may play faster and cleaner, but it always sounds robotic to me. Ed is the real deal. Being not much of a talker, he puts all of himself into his craft. The album will be out when it is ready. I’d rather have him tweak it until it’s right, than put out some rushed crap. By the way VH 3 was great. Check out the playing on A Year to the Day…
Roth_Leaps_83

@ Adrian —-

“Van Halen 2″ was produced in only 6 days — and we all know how much fans hate that album because it wasn’t tweaked enough, right?

Moron….
pat

i have to side with leaps and joe on this one.even though its unrealistic to expect it in 6 days it is still odd that for a band that last toured over 3 years ago and a guitarist that claimed to already have 3 albums worth of new material it seems odd that it would take this long to put out 10-12 songs.i know alot of you dont like sammy but one thing most of us will agree with him on is that eddie just cant work fast enough in the studio anymore.you have to remember that in 1979 (VH2) they were up and coming,young and hungry.
DiamondInTheBuff

There are so many variables now — as compared to 1978 — in the record-making process. If Ed can play a new song to his liking in the studio, it seems like he’s going to do whatever it takes to get that exact sound copied onto the end-user product. It’s going to take exactly as long as that “x” amount of time.

I’ll gladly patiently wait for new VH tunes!
KingEdward

Ed is the last of the guitar heroes…
Panama Red

I really like the quote in this interview by Dave Pensado that anythingleftinthatbottle posted:
“You may can type 100 words per minute, but that doesn’t mean that you can write a great novel!”
That is a great analogy. It seems that so many guitarists wouldn’t understand the meaning in that statement. Luckily Eddie isn’t one of those guitarists. When he plays it’s with emotion and feeling. Eddie is the real deal, that’s one of the many things that makes him so special and legendary.

Roth_Leaps_83 – I share some of your concerns about Eddie going tweak crazy with the new album. I may be wrong but it seems like he’s gotten kind of obsessive over the last several years, something he didn’t seem to have a problem with in the early days. I don’t know if he’s a perfectionist or just gets too wrapped up in the recording process or what? I kinda wish there was someone there in the studio who Eddie would listen to and trust that would make sure he doesn’t immerse himself too deeply into the producing and engineering aspect of the album. I hope Eddie remembers this isn’t another one of his “solo” type albums like VH3. Dave is there now, it definitely needs to be more of a collaboration and I hope it is.
In Sammy’s book, Hagar said Ed and Al totally fucked up the Live album (“Right Here, Right Now”) in the studio, tinkering with it so much that they had to call Sammy in the studio to redo the vocals because they changed the tuning and timing so much. That’s crazy. It’s not really a Live album at that point, is it?

Leaps, even though I think your worries of Eddie being ‘tweak-happy’ may be warranted, I seriously doubt EVH would ever consider using protools.
I’m pretty concerned about how the production is going to turn out like you, but having said all that, I remember an interview with Ed where the interviewer brought up the topic of protools and Eddie was very critical of it. (I can’t remember the exact quotes, that mag is in my storage unit with a hundred other guitar/music mags) But I remember Eddie saying that he would never use protools. If I remember correctly, I think Eddie said he felt it is cheating. Also, I think some of the feeling and emotion that bleeds from Eddies fingers onto the strings would be lost using protools. I also don’t think a “purist” (like George Saer kept saying) would want to use protools.
I would definitely prefer a more Raw / Live sound on the new album in the same vein as how VH1 and VH2 sounded than an over produced, super polished and clean album like VH3.
But anyway, IMHO the thought of EVH using protools would be like the brilliant Alfred Hitchcock (if he were still around) directing the next Twilight movie. Sacrilege on both counts.
I also hope that Dave’s voice is in good enough shape that they don’t need autotune. It’s going to be tougher for Dave without Mike’s backing vocals that’s for sure, if he tries to hit those high notes.
But I can’t wait to here Dave’s voice and Eddie’s riffs on the same album, on the same songs again, Finally!

Leaps said: “Van Halen 2″ was produced in only 6 days – and we all know how much fans hate that album because it wasn’t tweaked enough, right?
Good point, although I heard it took 10 days but still, that’s crazy fast either way. Also Van Halen’s debut album which we all know is one of the best hard rock albums in history only took about 3 weeks to produce.
My personal opinion is that over producing an album and trying to make it “perfect” (as alluring as that may be) ultimately takes away some great elements to the overall sound and feel of the album. In my opinion, The Live, ‘first take’ vibe is so much more rock and roll and better sounding than the overly clean and polished sound. I like it when things aren’t perfectly tweaked, it’s more real and Rock and Roll.